This week, instead of blogging, I got engrossed in a thread on The Whatever regarding homeschooling. If you want to slog through 178 comments, you can read what I have to say there. (I'm the one known--curiously--as "Lisa" over in them there parts.) And yes, I should have shut my pie hole around my third comment, but by that time, I had let it become sport.
Anyway, someone on that thread recommended the book, "The Underground History of American Education" by John Taylor Gatto. It is actually online in its entirety, so I've been engrossed in that. Gatto, you may know, is famous for quitting his 30 year PS teaching career with a scathing acceptance speech at his NY Teacher of the Year ceremony, and his book, "Dumbing Us Down," which I have read. This book goes entirely further into the history of compulsory education. He comes to it from quite a libertarian angle, so I don't agree with everything he says, although my experiences as teacher and student do not disagree with many of his conclusions. I am a weird amalgamation of socialist libertarian, if that is even possible. I think we should all take care of each other financially until every last one of us, including the earth, has our basic need for food, shelter, clothing, health care, community and access to education met. Then, I don't care what you do. You might say I'm economically a socialist but socially a libertarian. Or something like that. Anyway, the book is not only teaching me a lot of American History I did not know (and showing my how bad my sister's and my schooling was, even though by relative standards, it was quite good), but is giving me insight into such things as family issues, community issues, church issues, etc.
But I don't want to write about that until I've finished the book and had some time to digest it. Also, if anyone else wants to read it or has read it, I'd love to do a little book club style bloggity-blog-blog thing about it. Let me know if you are interested and maybe we can set a date.
Instead, I will answer an email. Gracious reader, Wendy, asks:
I have a 3 year old and am interested in your thoughts about talking to kids about obvious disabilities. The other day, a man walked past us using a cane and my son turned to watch him. After the man passed, I just said, "that man is using a cane to help him walk". We haven't encountered too many people in wheelchairs, although we've seen a few and I try to comment to my son in a low key way. My intention is to educate him and maybe prevent loud questions that could be embarrassing(more for me than the person in the wheelchair, I think).
So what are your thoughts? I know that it's different for you because your kids are used to seeing their dad in a wheelchair. What advice do you have for those of us that have limited contact with people with disabilities? Also, how do you suggest talking about mental illness or developmental disabilities? I have some thoughts but am interested in yours.
She also asks if I have already written on this topic and if so, where? To which my answer is, "Hell if I know. Have I? Anyone remember?" Its almost easier to write it up again instead of search for it. And my kids are also three, and things are coming up for us, too.
Well, first of all, I think what you said was fine. Second, my kids probably, in a way, know less about disability than you think. They are used to the accoutrement's of disability such as wheelchairs, hearing aids, white canes, IV pumps, etc. But they really have no idea that these things are in any way different than what most people use. But more on that in a sec.
I tend to not make a point to give a big explanation to my kids about anything unless they ask a specific question (or seem so perplexed and bothered about something they see that it would comfort them to have an explanation.) For example, I have not ever talked to my kids about race. And I don't expect to until the issue comes up by itself. They see people and play with children of different races almost everyday. They don't seem to think anything of it, so why make a big point to explain something that they don't see as different. Now this doesn't mean that eventually, when we start learning about American and World History, for example, that we won't have the hard discussions about race. But right now, it seems like pointing out that their little friend so-and-so has different colored skin than they do is kind of wagging the dog. I mean, I don't go around making a point to tell them that so-and-so has different colored eyes or is a different height or weight. What do you think? Is this the right way to handle it? It is hard to know whether you should be pre-empting any subconscious negative information they are getting from our culture about these things, or if by pre-empting it by pointing it out, you are actually putting negative subconscious information in their heads.
Now, they have asked gender specific questions and I have answered them matter of factly. Mainly things like, "mom, do you potty out of YOUR penis, too?" And then today Naim proclaimed, "Mom! You have BIG breasts! And I have little breasts!" So I just matter of factly say that women have bigger breasts than men, blah, blah, blah. But I haven't even gone around (as I've seen some parents do) asking, "There is Jane. Is Jane a boy or a girl?" I figure Jane can self-identify if it is important to her that they get her gender right. Besides, that stuff is so ingrained in our culture, they already can gender identify. I never had to say anything to them about it.
So with D's and my disability, I have really just explained things as they came up and answered their questions. They are just now starting to realize that D can't walk. They still don't quite articulate an understanding that I don't hear as well as they do. Yet, they accommodate me naturally by bringing stuff over to me or coming over to me to talk to me. Sometimes, they will say, "What's that noise?" And I will say, "I don't hear the noise you are hearing, because you can hear better than me. What does it sound like?" And then sometimes they will go into great detail imitating and describing every sound they hear for me. And it even gets out of hand silly when they start telling me they hear elephant sounds or space shuttle sounds in a fit of giggles. But I don't think it registers to them that I am different or less than in any way because of this. When they play "house," whoever is the dad has to find a wheelchair to sit in. Now they know that there are other men called dads and that they don't use wheelchairs, but in their mind dads use wheelchairs. Whenever they draw pictures of me (or moms in general) they draw hearing aids. Moms have hearing aids. End of story. When they draw their dad, he looks like a big head on top arms on top of 4 to 8 circles for wheels. But they draw themselves with legs. I have told them that not all moms have hearing aids and not all dads use wheelchairs, and I think they cognitively get that, but they don't use those images in their imaginary play. When they see other people who are disabled, they really don't seem to notice. It is just par for the course for them. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds for them to come to understand that we are the different ones. Or at least that is how we are thought of.
I know this isn't exactly what you are asking, but I mention it because people ask me sometimes, in serious hushed tones, how we are "handling" teaching the kids about disability issues. The truth is, we aren't. We are just living our lives and not shoving it down their throats that we are so unique or different. But yet we do answer all of their questions honestly and matter-of-factly.
So, that being said, I don't know if it is necessary to say anything to your kids about people with disabilities unless they ask or seem uncomfortably confused by it. I used to do these "disability awareness" thingies at kid's schools, and I still do them from time to time, but I've come to think of them as sometimes doing more harm than good. It is like putting a big, fat sign that says "THIS PERSON IS DIFFERENT. LEARN THAT!" on us, when kids might not have thought we were all that different before, just more of a curiosity. Now, when I am invited to do kid awareness things, I say that I'm not going to stand in front of the class and tell them how different I am. Nor am I going to do the "I'm just like everybody else...except" dog and pony show. Now I try to set it up just so I spend some time with the kids doing something that they are already doing, like an art project or something. I will introduce myself with a 30 second intro about me, like anyone would, and I do say that I cannot see or hear very well. And then I just interact with them. And they ask questions in the process and I answer them.
Also, I will say, that in the disability community, kids get a pass. I don't like to speak for everyone in the community about this, but I have found that to be universally true in my experiences. Kids staring or asking questions is really no problem. Unless I am in a mad rush somewhere, I will always happily answer any kid question. This "PASS" is in response to the backlash that happens when kids are shushed and pulled away and told not to stare at us by their parents. That is the perfect way to ensure that your kid thinks we are freaks. We look different, we are doing things differently, kids should stare. It is only natural. If they are yanked away and scolded for staring, all it has done is enticed them to view us as fascinating freaky people that are so bad, we make mom uncomfortable.
Also, I personally would rather have the kid come up to me and ask me a question directly, rather than have their mother shush them till I've passed and then give their own explanation. Because often, their explanation is wrong. I'd rather they just get it from the horses mouth. And also, if I find their question to be too personal, I'll politely tell them that it is too personal. This way, they might actually grow up understanding that they don't have the right to ask disabled people anything they want to know. And if I am too busy to answer, I'll say something like, "That is a good question, but I don't have time to answer it right now." So then they know that it isn't my JOB to stop and educate them, but I will do it voluntarily if I can.
When I had my guide dog, I heard parents say all kinds of things to kids that made me sort of cringe. One was, "She can't see the traffic lights so that dog takes care of her and takes her across the street." Well, actually, no. No guide dog can see traffic lights or knows when to cross the street. We tell them when it is okay to cross the street by using our skills and hearing, just like white cane users do. Where a guide dog can help is to find the straightest path across the street to the opposite sidewalk, and to help us know which way to dodge an unruly car should it come careening around the corner. The other thing that happened all the time was when I went anywhere with D, people made up whole stories about us to tell their kids. That man can't walk so he has a dog to catch him in case he falls out of his wheelchair and has a seizure and that woman is his nurse who takes care of him. Okay, whatever. But do people know they are just making shit up? It is always about how we are poor things that need someone (dog or human) to take care of us.
Worse yet is the people who talk to their kids is very value judgment-y ways like, "That person can't see. Aren't you lucky that you can see? Doesn't that make you feel bad that she can't see? Maybe you can use her as your community service project for today and go over and annoy her until she lets you help her with something she doesn't need help with." I think it is very important that parents aren't using us as their kid's feel sympathy and be grateful for what you've got feel good moment of the day. I mean, why not just take a whole bag full of prejudice and intolerance and ram it down your kid's throat?
The thing about kids and people with cognitive disabilities is that most of the time, kids just don't care. Sometimes if a person is displaying some kind of socially unacceptable behavior like drooling, kids will ask or stare. And then I'd just say that all people are different and have different abilities and some people aren't able to control their saliva very well. But if it is just that a person that a kid comes in contact with who is not acting as intelligent or mature as typical for his age, I'd just let them get to know the person. Or if it is a passerby, say nothing unless asked and then I would do the "everyone is different with different personalities" line. I think the main idea is that kids pick up on how comfortable YOU are in the situation. So if you really want to portray acceptance of people with disabilities, I'd start with yourself first. And in the meantime, explanations should be short and sweet and factual, and most especially value-neutral.
So, in summary:
Readers with disabilities? Feel free to add your opinions in the comments. Disagree with me? Agree? Have other ideas? Let Wendy and me know.
Well, first of all, I think what you said was fine. Second, my kids probably, in a way, know less about disability than you think. They are used to the accoutrement's of disability such as wheelchairs, hearing aids, white canes, IV pumps, etc. But they really have no idea that these things are in any way different than what most people use. But more on that in a sec.
I tend to not make a point to give a big explanation to my kids about anything unless they ask a specific question (or seem so perplexed and bothered about something they see that it would comfort them to have an explanation.) For example, I have not ever talked to my kids about race. And I don't expect to until the issue comes up by itself. They see people and play with children of different races almost everyday. They don't seem to think anything of it, so why make a big point to explain something that they don't see as different. Now this doesn't mean that eventually, when we start learning about American and World History, for example, that we won't have the hard discussions about race. But right now, it seems like pointing out that their little friend so-and-so has different colored skin than they do is kind of wagging the dog. I mean, I don't go around making a point to tell them that so-and-so has different colored eyes or is a different height or weight. What do you think? Is this the right way to handle it? It is hard to know whether you should be pre-empting any subconscious negative information they are getting from our culture about these things, or if by pre-empting it by pointing it out, you are actually putting negative subconscious information in their heads.
Now, they have asked gender specific questions and I have answered them matter of factly. Mainly things like, "mom, do you potty out of YOUR penis, too?" And then today Naim proclaimed, "Mom! You have BIG breasts! And I have little breasts!" So I just matter of factly say that women have bigger breasts than men, blah, blah, blah. But I haven't even gone around (as I've seen some parents do) asking, "There is Jane. Is Jane a boy or a girl?" I figure Jane can self-identify if it is important to her that they get her gender right. Besides, that stuff is so ingrained in our culture, they already can gender identify. I never had to say anything to them about it.
So with D's and my disability, I have really just explained things as they came up and answered their questions. They are just now starting to realize that D can't walk. They still don't quite articulate an understanding that I don't hear as well as they do. Yet, they accommodate me naturally by bringing stuff over to me or coming over to me to talk to me. Sometimes, they will say, "What's that noise?" And I will say, "I don't hear the noise you are hearing, because you can hear better than me. What does it sound like?" And then sometimes they will go into great detail imitating and describing every sound they hear for me. And it even gets out of hand silly when they start telling me they hear elephant sounds or space shuttle sounds in a fit of giggles. But I don't think it registers to them that I am different or less than in any way because of this. When they play "house," whoever is the dad has to find a wheelchair to sit in. Now they know that there are other men called dads and that they don't use wheelchairs, but in their mind dads use wheelchairs. Whenever they draw pictures of me (or moms in general) they draw hearing aids. Moms have hearing aids. End of story. When they draw their dad, he looks like a big head on top arms on top of 4 to 8 circles for wheels. But they draw themselves with legs. I have told them that not all moms have hearing aids and not all dads use wheelchairs, and I think they cognitively get that, but they don't use those images in their imaginary play. When they see other people who are disabled, they really don't seem to notice. It is just par for the course for them. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds for them to come to understand that we are the different ones. Or at least that is how we are thought of.
I know this isn't exactly what you are asking, but I mention it because people ask me sometimes, in serious hushed tones, how we are "handling" teaching the kids about disability issues. The truth is, we aren't. We are just living our lives and not shoving it down their throats that we are so unique or different. But yet we do answer all of their questions honestly and matter-of-factly.
So, that being said, I don't know if it is necessary to say anything to your kids about people with disabilities unless they ask or seem uncomfortably confused by it. I used to do these "disability awareness" thingies at kid's schools, and I still do them from time to time, but I've come to think of them as sometimes doing more harm than good. It is like putting a big, fat sign that says "THIS PERSON IS DIFFERENT. LEARN THAT!" on us, when kids might not have thought we were all that different before, just more of a curiosity. Now, when I am invited to do kid awareness things, I say that I'm not going to stand in front of the class and tell them how different I am. Nor am I going to do the "I'm just like everybody else...except" dog and pony show. Now I try to set it up just so I spend some time with the kids doing something that they are already doing, like an art project or something. I will introduce myself with a 30 second intro about me, like anyone would, and I do say that I cannot see or hear very well. And then I just interact with them. And they ask questions in the process and I answer them.
Also, I will say, that in the disability community, kids get a pass. I don't like to speak for everyone in the community about this, but I have found that to be universally true in my experiences. Kids staring or asking questions is really no problem. Unless I am in a mad rush somewhere, I will always happily answer any kid question. This "PASS" is in response to the backlash that happens when kids are shushed and pulled away and told not to stare at us by their parents. That is the perfect way to ensure that your kid thinks we are freaks. We look different, we are doing things differently, kids should stare. It is only natural. If they are yanked away and scolded for staring, all it has done is enticed them to view us as fascinating freaky people that are so bad, we make mom uncomfortable.
Also, I personally would rather have the kid come up to me and ask me a question directly, rather than have their mother shush them till I've passed and then give their own explanation. Because often, their explanation is wrong. I'd rather they just get it from the horses mouth. And also, if I find their question to be too personal, I'll politely tell them that it is too personal. This way, they might actually grow up understanding that they don't have the right to ask disabled people anything they want to know. And if I am too busy to answer, I'll say something like, "That is a good question, but I don't have time to answer it right now." So then they know that it isn't my JOB to stop and educate them, but I will do it voluntarily if I can.
When I had my guide dog, I heard parents say all kinds of things to kids that made me sort of cringe. One was, "She can't see the traffic lights so that dog takes care of her and takes her across the street." Well, actually, no. No guide dog can see traffic lights or knows when to cross the street. We tell them when it is okay to cross the street by using our skills and hearing, just like white cane users do. Where a guide dog can help is to find the straightest path across the street to the opposite sidewalk, and to help us know which way to dodge an unruly car should it come careening around the corner. The other thing that happened all the time was when I went anywhere with D, people made up whole stories about us to tell their kids. That man can't walk so he has a dog to catch him in case he falls out of his wheelchair and has a seizure and that woman is his nurse who takes care of him. Okay, whatever. But do people know they are just making shit up? It is always about how we are poor things that need someone (dog or human) to take care of us.
Worse yet is the people who talk to their kids is very value judgment-y ways like, "That person can't see. Aren't you lucky that you can see? Doesn't that make you feel bad that she can't see? Maybe you can use her as your community service project for today and go over and annoy her until she lets you help her with something she doesn't need help with." I think it is very important that parents aren't using us as their kid's feel sympathy and be grateful for what you've got feel good moment of the day. I mean, why not just take a whole bag full of prejudice and intolerance and ram it down your kid's throat?
The thing about kids and people with cognitive disabilities is that most of the time, kids just don't care. Sometimes if a person is displaying some kind of socially unacceptable behavior like drooling, kids will ask or stare. And then I'd just say that all people are different and have different abilities and some people aren't able to control their saliva very well. But if it is just that a person that a kid comes in contact with who is not acting as intelligent or mature as typical for his age, I'd just let them get to know the person. Or if it is a passerby, say nothing unless asked and then I would do the "everyone is different with different personalities" line. I think the main idea is that kids pick up on how comfortable YOU are in the situation. So if you really want to portray acceptance of people with disabilities, I'd start with yourself first. And in the meantime, explanations should be short and sweet and factual, and most especially value-neutral.
So, in summary:
- Work on your own attitude first, then your kid's. Always try to model comfort and respect around us.
- Don't point out differences that your kid doesn't even see.
- In the disabled community, kids get a pass in regards to staring, asking questions. It is our way to try to undo the mess the parent is about to create. So don't worry too much about it.
- If appropriate, let the kid come up and talk to us about their concerns. But know that we aren't obligated to educate them, spend time we don't have with them, or cross our personal boundaries with them. We are providing a courtesy that hopefully serves both parties well.
- If not possible for your kid to talk to us, answer their questions in matter-of-fact, value neutral ways.
- If you don't know the correct answer just say so. If the kid is still curious later on, do some research by going directly to disabled self-advocate sources, NOT professional service provider or medical sources. You will get a WAAAY more real life and accurate answer that way.
Readers with disabilities? Feel free to add your opinions in the comments. Disagree with me? Agree? Have other ideas? Let Wendy and me know.
i am NOT has disabled as either yourself or "D". with that caveat...
i mentor teens. i jokingly threaten them with my cane. which a) lets them know i am not a pushover (waaaaaaay too important with teens, sigh) b)lets them know they don't have to "take care of me" and c) makes the whole thing very matter-of-fact. (not that violence is GOOD. if they thought i was serious, i would be mortified. but they know i'm not, and its a cool thing to them...)
i have a 3 year old niece and almost 5 year old nephew, and i just tell them i need help to walk, my hip and leg are messed up (and then that turned into that song... you know "the leg bone is connected to the hip bone, the hip bone is connected to the back bone..."). and then the stopped running away trying to get me chase them. which appears to be their favorite game. especially in grocery stores.
kids asking what is wrong with me never bothers me. ADULTS asking, in that patronizing way ("well, whats wrong with you then? why do you deserve my pity?" is what it always sounds like to me), i ignore or tell off, depending on my mood. i have never had an adult ask me with intent to educate. i think i would like it, though
Posted by: Elizabeth | April 04, 2008 at 08:50 PM
This is interesting and just a bit late for my personal incident, but I am glad to see I did the Lisa-approved thing.
We went to visit a friend of my parents' who has been stuck in a nursing prison (which you educated me all about) for several years due to an aneurism. Anyhow, before we all went, my mother said we should do something to "prepare" Nat for it, because R. doesn't talk like most people do. I told her Nat would have no problem because we have a neighbor who can't talk very well and she and Nat communicate with little gestures and grunts (Nat imitates her, but it comes out well, as Nat has basically learned what different tones and such mean to our neighbor). I told my mom that Nat is used to disability and would be fine.
But really, I was thinking it would be ridiculous to beat Nat to the punch and give her the idea that there was something to fear or disparage about R. before she ever met him. After all, "they" say you should always stick to answering just the questions a kid asks, rather than offering a lot of excess info they may not need and may just complicate things--on all kinds of topics, not just this one.
So she met R. understood him just fine, played with the therapy dog in the common room, charmed a passel of old ladies and flirted with another younger man with severe CP, who also couldn't talk like most people.
It was my mom who turned on her "sick people and young children" voice when talking to R. It wasn't Nat who was freaked out.
And frankly, I don't think it would have been a big deal to her even if she didn't already know our neighbor. I mostly just used that excuse to fend off my mom's bad idea.
Posted by: shannon | April 07, 2008 at 08:29 PM
Lisa,
great entry. Thank you for writting it.
I was wondering if I could reproduce it in my webpage. We have a small blog.
If you are willing, please contact me privately and we'll talk.
Hugs
Lucia
Posted by: Lucía Moreno Velo | April 08, 2008 at 04:58 AM
To answer your first question; How do I as a disabled person handle questions from kids? I always try to answer them as matter of fact as possible and try to get the point across that being blind is not a "big deal" and it just means that I do some things a little different. Second question, as a parent of two kids I know that my kids have a good understanding of blindness related challenges, but they have no more or less understanding of other disabilities. I do try to coach my kids to treat people with "unknown disabilities" the way I wish other parents and kids would treat me and my disability. Be respectful, plight ask questions if the person in questions is up to answering, but for sure don't tell the kids something which I don't know or understand.
Posted by: Sven | April 14, 2008 at 03:25 PM