Why Do I Feel Like I've Been Punished By Alfie Kohn?

I mentioned before that I was reading the book, Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn. Kohn (of Punished by Rewards fame) is sort of a big parenting movement in some circles like attachment parenting or other parenting strategies that some people really get involved in. I actually finished it a few weeks ago, but thought I'd wait to tell you about it until I tried a little experiment and tried to apply the principles to my own kids. I wanted to read it because I know that it was very anti-behaviorism and I have a lot of training in behaviorism. I thought it might challenge me. It did and it didn't. I sort of liked it and hated it.

Behaviorism, as you probably know, is the process of applying positive and negative reinforcement to manipulate behavior. Think Pavlov's dogs and Nanny 911. "Time Out," "Catch 'em being good," "Ignore tantrums" are all the new wave of behaviorism. The older wave being corporal punishment and, I suppose, severe judgmental mother-guilt syndrome. The supposed formula for behaviorism is ABC: Antecedent, Behavior, Consequence. You tell your kid to go clean his room. (Antecedent). He either cleans his room or doesn't. (Behavior) and you either reward or punish him for his behavior (Consequence). The goal being that soon when you tell him to clean his room, he will do it in anticipation of the reward or to avoid the punishment. Behaviorism is the cornerstone of how most Americans discipline their children. We have shifted from harsh punishments (such as spanking) to more of a focus on rewards (such as star charts), but it is all still behaviorism.

Kohn is strongly against behaviorism. He is a proponent of what he calls "love and logic" parenting, which is free of the judgments required in behaviorism. When I started reading the book, I realized that I had studied his methods before. Although my undergraduate training (basic classroom management) was all about behaviorism, my graduate training went into behavior issues at an extensively deeper level. One of my jobs was actually training other trainers (who would then go and train teachers and parents) in a system we called "Positive Behavioral Supports." There in Kohn's book, was all the old authors I remember reading in professional journals in grad school, Glasser, Ginott, Norman Kunc, and others.

I wondered if I hadn't had all that background, whether I really would have got the whole love and logic thing he proposes. He spends the majority of the book trying to convince you that behaviorism is bad, bad, bad; but doesn't do a good job in really illustrating a replacement. He says the book is not a cookbook for handling kid behavior problems because he is proposing more of a mental paradigm or philosophy than a behavior management plan. I get that. But I don't know how much it will help you in the real world.

The difference between my studies in grad school and Alfie Kohn is that he is a purist and we were more apt to take several approaches to behavior problems. We might start out with logic and reasoning and choice-making and natural consequences and functional assessment, but if all that failed and there was still a problem, well then behaviorism it was. Kohn sees all other behavior strategies as just different places on the behaviorism  continuum--someplace between punishment and reward. His method, he sees as a totally different alternative. A star that shines above and is totally separated from behaviorism. In my studies (and what many parents apply in real life) is more of a mixed bag of whatever works approach.

I agree with the skeptical research on behaviorism. That it is not the most effective strategy in the long term and can be abused and overused. That punishments don't work to effectively change behavior (or only effect short-term changes). And I get that rewards are just the ineffective flip side of the same coin. A lot of research is coming out now about gifted children and how rewards and positive judgments that they have received all their lives (You're so smart! and multiple A+'s and other rewards based on their giftedness) are really having a negative impact on these kids. They lose their internal motivation and crave the reward to the exclusion of learning for learning's sake. When they think their entire self-worth is tied up in how smart they are, and that's why people love them, they don't try as hard. They go for the guaranteed A+ rather than trying a more difficult task that may result in a B or C. They fear mistakes and failure to an extent that they sometimes develop anxiety problems. They result in the term "Gifted Underachiever." Kids who are punished a lot sometimes start to define themselves as being a bad kid. They create a self-fulfilling prophecy. They may become either rebellious or withdrawn if only their behavior is judged by punishment and reward. Who they are (and why they actually may be doing the behavior) gets lost in the outcome of the behavior. And artificial consequences, like punishment and reward, mask the natural consequences of their actions and they have trouble adjusting to life without supervision and someone else controlling them. (Well, until they enter most areas of the workforce, and then they are back in the behaviorism system again.)

What Kohn suggests as a replacement makes good sense. And most parents do these things to some extent in addition to behaviorism. He just wants us to drop behaviorism altogether and use "unconditional parenting" using love and logic. Its all good stuff that we all strive to do. Listen to our kids more, try to figure out the function or reason behind their behavior. Don't pass judgment and try to help your child problem solve instead. If we have to tell them, "NO," we need to explain the reasoning behind it instead of saying, "Because I said SO!!" Be interested in kid's art work or writing or whatever without saying it is good or bad. De-emphasize grades and other artificial evaluation systems. Learning should be its own reward. Let kids have a say in everything that affects them. Family life should be about a democratic process and/or building consensus. Treat them with respect you would give adults. Look at what you're asking your kid not to do and see if it is really that important. Change the environment instead of changing the kids behavior (a la baby proofing instead of the constant NO!). Never rush a kid, let her take the lead. Am I missing anything?

That's wonderful, right? We all want to be that kind of parent. We all strive to do these things as much as we can. But, is it possible to do these things exclusively? In Kohn's world there are no time outs, no "Good Job!!", no star charts, no "I like the way you...", no psuedochoices (You are going to eat your vegetables. Do you want spinach or broccoli?), no ignoring tantrums, no threatening the kid that if he doesn't get up off the grocery store floor he will not get to play video games, no taking away of privileges such as TV or social activities, no grounding, no rewards and punishments. He doesn't even approve of using natural consequences such as making the kid go back and get his coat that he forgot at school (unless the kid and you build consensus and decide that is the course of action you will take.) No behaviorism.

Could you do it? As I read the book, after each sentence, I was like, yeah. This sounds wonderful. But how do I apply this to twin two-year-olds? With limited language and reasoning skills, limited experiences with the natural consequences of life, and limited moral development when it comes to things like empathy? Here is the short list of things my kids may try to refuse to do on any given day--very hopefully not both kids on the same day--but it does happen:

Get up
Go to bed
Get dressed/change diapers
Stay dressed
Eat
Stop eating (as in they would exist on a diet entirely made up of Earth's Best Sesame Street crackers if I'd let them)
Get in the stroller and stay there.
Continue walking if I let them out of the stroller.
Go to daycare
Leave daycare
Share
Take turns
Treat their toys with respect (as in don't throw them across the room or rip books)
Stop hitting, kicking, biting, etc.
Throw food on the ground
Hurry up
Slow down
Brush their teeth.
Stop brushing their teeth (as a bedtime stall tactic)
Be picked up
Be put down
Cease and desist in such things as stabbing their brother in the eye with a spoon, opening the refrigerator over and over again, getting their hand stuck in the child proofed cupboards, unlocking and opening the dishwasher while its running, and a million other wacky things
I could go on.

Now, I don't expect them to do all these things correctly yet. They are two. I expect these behaviors. I understand that they are finding their independence right now and spreading their wings in their environment. And maybe in a perfect (heh. privileged) household I could deal with them daily without using behaviorism. I could sit with them in daycare as long as they wanted me there and I could let them stay as long as they wanted when I come to pick them up. I would never have to rush them, because I would never have to be on time or catch a train/bus anywhere. I could sit with them endlessly while they play together and constantly run interference (using logic and reason) every 20 seconds when they fight over a toy. I could be tolerant enough (and have a wide enough lap) that they could both sit on me together instead of climbing all over me as they jockey for position with each other. I could let them pick their own bedtimes and mealtimes and play times because I would never have to keep a work schedule or meet my own sleeping and eating needs. Maybe I could conduct an instantaneous experiment with hot and cold to show them why they can't touch the gas flame on the stove instead of reminding them, yanking them away, or telling them they are doing a good job listening to directions while I cook (you know, because I would have my cook there to rescue the over-boiling pot while we went into time consuming detail about the stove being hot.) I could throw out the dinner they don't like and fix them a new one instead of encouraging them to eat what I've served because I don't have the money to waste food or the time to cook individual meals for everyone. Maybe I would have loads of patience to talk it through with them instead of telling them "no!" because I would have another parent or a nanny to relieve me when I get frustrated.

And maybe they would understand when I did take the time. Maybe they would understand why I needed to take away dad's bottle of pills that they thought was just a nice rattle. (I know Kohn would say that they shouldn't have had access to the pills in the first place, but life happens quickly sometimes, you know?) And maybe they would understand, if I explained it to them with reason, that if we don't hurry up and get their shoes on RIGHT. NOW. we will miss our train to their doctors appointment where they will get shots and then mom will have to wait 2 months for a new one. Yeah, maybe they will understand that if I just took the time to explain it to them. And maybe they would understand, if I just explained it to them, that if mama has to spend one more second cleaning the yogurt that they are continuously spilling (just for fun!) over the side of their high chairs that she will literally go insane? Maybe I should just let them experiment with the yogurt as long as they are curious. And maybe that one time, when Aaron decided to have a screaming, hitting tantrum when I wouldn't let him take all of Naim's crayons away so he hit us both continually, I should have just calmly focused all my attention to Naim and try to garner some empathy out of Aaron. "Oh, now see when you hit him you make him sad!" Believe me, Aaron was in no mood for empathy. So I removed him from the situation and put him on a chair in the same room. In five or so minutes, he calmed down and started playing nicely with us again. But Kohn would say that was a forced time out and that makes Aaron feel like I don't love him. (At that moment...I kinda didn't. I admit it. It happens.)

So, the whole book made me wonder if Kohn has ever been around small children, by himself, for an extended period, without nannies or his wife for backup, and with other commitments and responsibilities and financial pressures that had to be taken care of. He gave an example of his three year old having a tantrum in front of the store on the way to the car. He said he just talked with her about how he understood that she was angry and frustrated and basically just waited it out until she was done and she chose to go to the car on her own. Okay, that is fine. But what if the tantrum was in the street? And what if it was 30 degrees out? And what if you were carrying groceries and had to go catch a bus in 5 minutes or you would be there for another hour?

So, I did a little experiment with my kids by trying to utilize his methods more (I already utilized them, just not as a total replacement for behaviorism). I tried to also eliminate nearly all behaviorist tactics. (I never completely got over my habit of saying "Good job!" I say that a lot.) I tried this for two weeks.

I will tell you for baseline purposes that I usually have a couple of good kids. They have their days, but most of the time we do not have any serious behavior problem. The biggest one we have is the sharing taking turns thing, which goes with the territory for twins. We do have little crying jags throughout the day sometimes, but mostly they pass quickly and the kids are happy.  My main tools are setting routines to help the kids anticipate what is coming and behaviorism. The routines are set up with them in mind. So indirectly they do have input. I try to have them sleeping when they are tired, eating when they are hungry, etc., but they do have a bedtime and a wake up time most days. We are working on choice-making now. But it is inconsequential things like which color shirt, which book, which drink, etc. I do a lot of catch 'em being good and I do some "I'll know you're ready to eat when you are sitting down" and withholding the plate of food until they are sat down. I have used time out. Aaron has been in time out maybe three or four times in his whole life. I'm trying to think if I've ever put Naim in time out. Maybe once. Time out is usually just being set off to the side of the room I'm in. I don't have a specific time limit, I just sit them there until they've chilled off a bit. I will try to figure out if I can help if the kid is upset, but if I can't do anything about it (like if the kid wants to play with my knives) and a tantrum ensues, I will ignore it. Basically, this has worked pretty well for us. They get lots of hugs, kisses and affection throughout the day, and if they do get into trouble, after the 'crisis' is over, I just pretend it never happened and we go on about our day. I have lost my temper with them before and needed to take my own time out. I have talked to them harshly at times. I think I have screamed at them maybe once or twice. I've never hit them, spanked them, or in any way physically abused them. But I'm not perfect and I've lost my cool a few times. Mostly, though, I think I am very patient with them and take their needs into account.

So, in the two weeks I tried to eliminate behaviorism...It was God Awful. Someone may argue that I didn't do it right and need more practice or they needed more time to adjust and maybe that is true. But my god, Naim, who is normally a fun, good natured, independent child, became whiny, clingy, unsure of himself, and started having violent tantrums. Aaron did not change his entire personality on me, but his tantruming did increase. As a mom, I became a miserable, anxiety ridden mess who had trouble controlling my temper. It did not work for us.

Here is possibly why: Two-year-olds (Naim in particular) need structure and consistency and help with control. They don't have the experience or practice to do it themselves, so they rely on me to set up some controls for them. The world is so big and so foreign to them, that to have a great deal of responsibility for making their own decisions becomes overwhelming. And it is a responsibility. Naim was just starting to be happy with making little decisions like what to wear. But bedtimes? When to eat? Whether to go outside or not and when? That was too much for him to handle. Not that I just handed over the day to them. What I did was, if it was time for naps I would talk to them about being tired and suggest a nap. If they protested, I let them stay up for a while, then talked again about how they are tired. Ordinarily, I would just go, Nap time! and do our little prenap rituals and go to bed. If they protested, which they sometimes did, I would just ignore or say, I'm sorry, I know you don't want to take a nap right now, but you have to or you won't feel well later. But, they went to bed no matter what. When I discussed it with them and did not use behaviorism, we ended up having hours of whiny crankyness, they would nod off at dinner time and then want to eat right when I needed to go to bed. When we got ready to get in the stroller and leave (and I had a time issue here) Naim protested and cried and said some word that sounded to me like "Monkey". He was pointing to inside the house. Normally I would maybe spend a second trying to see if I could figure out the problem. If I couldn't, I would say, "Sorry, I can't help you, but when you get to daycare you'll have a lot of fun and you'll be okay." This time, I let him out of the stroller, followed him in the house, and tried to figure out what he wanted. When he got in the house, he just kind of stood there like he didn't know what he wanted. Finally, I just had to take him and put him back in the stroller, which caused a bigger fit than if I just would have said, Sorry, we have to go. I didn't withhold food until they sat. I did explain to them that if they didn't sit, they would make a big mess and we would have to change clothes. Guess what? They didn't care. They ate standing up and spilled food all over their pants and then got upset with me when I changed their clothes. Now did they remember the changing clothes (natural) consequence the next day? Of course not. Same thing. It would have been much easier for all of us to just make them sit down. They usually do it in seconds and it is no big deal to them when I remind them that food will come when they are sitting down, ready to eat.

If you think about times when you've maybe traveled to a foreign country, or worked at a new job, it was probably a bit overwhelming and you did not understand all the reasons, choices, and consequences of the unfamiliar environment. So, maybe you were more comfortable diverting your decision making to another more experienced person. It was more comfortable to put your trust in their decisions even if you didn't understand all your options. If your more experienced traveling companion suggested a food you didn't like every once in a while, you dealt with it as a learning experience, but still wanted her to take over some of the decision making. Eventually, you gradually became able to make decisions on your own and not have to rely on someone elses guidance. Well, that's parenting. I guide when they are too overwhelmed or inexperienced or uncomfortable to do it themselves. At 15, that may be a lot of talking, listening and using love and reason. At two, that means using a lot of behaviorism.

Behaviorism is also about shaping behavior. It is like a game of hot/cold. "You're doing good!" means you're getting hot. You are nearing the goal. Do more of that. If you get ignored, you must be cold. Do less of that. This is a learning strategy that we all do. Yes, technically telling my kid that they are doing well when they eat with their spoon is a judgment and a reward for behavior, but I think they are looking for hints on how to behave and fit in to the family and eventually society. You can't completely abandon "Good job!" And I don't think your kids want you to. If you think of a time someone tried to help you learn how to do something that you were a little unsure of, like, I don't know--changing a tire--you depended on them for these little checks and approvals. You might ask at each step, "Is this alright? How am I doing at this?" You corrected yourself when they suggested it, and you were comforted and pleased when they said you were doing a good job. This is natural and has nothing to do with conditional or unconditional love. I can be nonjudgmental and say, "Aaron, I see that you are shoving your entire hand in a cup of yogurt and then squishing it around in your vegetables. Hmmm. Tell me about that." But your kid might be thinking, I see that they eat with their spoons and I'm not sure how to do that. Am I supposed to do that? I wish she would give me a sign on whether I'm supposed to be picking up my spoon instead of giving me nothing. I wish she would reassure me when I'm doing this whole eating thing right. I see how parents can take "good job" and judgment of behaviors too far, but I think Alfie Kohn is expanding the definition of conditional parenting too far.

When I switched back to a more behavioral approach with the kids, things improved immediately. I'm not saying that I got nothing out of the experiment. It did help me listen to the kids a bit better. One time, Naim was whining about being put in his highchair to eat, and at first I thought he was just being stubborn. But I decided to sit with him and try to figure it out. After a few minutes of trying to communicate, I figured out that he wanted to sit in the chair Aaron usually sits in. That was a big deal to him. And he has been sitting there happily ever since. He also wanted to wear Aaron's coat and sit in Aaron's car seat. All well and good. I don't care. Until Aaron objected to the car seat thing. Then what do you do? We could trade off each time, but I don't ride in a car enough for them to get that pattern yet and be satisfied with that. So its shitfits from one or the other every time we mess with car seat assignments. So, what would Alfie say? Should I honor Naim's choice, Aaron's choice or just ignore it all and decide for them? At some point, they just have to realize that we are all members of the family and have to work together. Part of that at this stage is just getting in the damned car without having a fit. That is the skill I want to teach them. I'll honor requests when I can, but when I can't...we've just gotta go, and I would like to go minus the fit.

So bottom line in all this, is that Kohn has some great ways to make you think and some good ideas to strive for. I think as kids get older and their language, reasoning, and moral development matures, love and logic will be more and more effective and useful. I see it more as a journey to get to that point. At two, we have to rely on behaviorism a lot to get through the day, but by the time they are 17, behaviorism should be all but phased out and it should be all about building consensus, talking it out, not judging, problem solving. I see a continuum of behaviorism on one end and reasoning on the other. Parents are going to have to use a combination of both quite often, but with the goal of a stronger and stronger emphasis on reason and problem solving. Parents may just have to be sure they find a variety of different ways to assure our kids that they are unconditionally loved.

I think Kohn is mostly sound and on to something, though. One of the best things he stresses is Don't Assume Your Kid is Bad. And also to think about how you would respect another person your same age that you admire and try to respect your kid in like manner. it is worth a read, especially if you felt like your parents used a lot of judgment and conditional parenting on you. HIs ideas will help you evaluate your parenting so perhaps you won't make some of the same mistakes with your kid. It may be a good example of a "finish line" you want to get to and work towards with your kids. It may help you to learn to listen to your kids and help get their ideas incorporated into the fabric of your family rather than you just falling into ruler of the roost mode. And if you have to use behaviorist techniques, it will help you to really analyze why your are doing it and if it is the best way. So, I'm pro Alfie, as long as I can keep my behaviorism in my bag of tricks just a little longer. Because-god help me-I HAVE TWO TWO-YEAR OLDS!!!

Comments

[M-j]

I have read portions of this book. While some of his philosophy is right on, I have to say that if you don't ever model the appropriate behavior, how will they ever learn not to do things? You raise some valid points, though. And, as a special education teacher and the mother of two boys with special needs, I have to say I've tried snippets of every kind of approach. I think the answer to parenting is to do your research, find out what you are comfy with and then do what works for your family. No book or expert has THE answer. You just have to do what works for you.

[M-j]

PS - what happened to the other post? I know I read something two days ago about family relations...

[Emmie (Better Make It A Double)]

Really great post. This was so helpful for me, as I'd been a bit confused by all this. I'm on an AP e-mail list that's always interesting, as I'm not so much of an AP mom in the end, but I am a "non-mainstream thinker" in a lot ways, so I find the ideas helpful sometimes. There's a minority of moms on the list that are devoted Kohn followers. While I still disagree with their approach (and it's resultant dictates about how playgroups should "run") your post was very hlepful for me in seeing some of the good things that Kohn has to share with us. My conclusion is similar also, though I'm glad I didn't have to suffer through a 2 week experiment first. Thank you!

[Lisa]

M-j,

I wrote the "forgiveness" post specifically to fill my own needs, not to have it potentially hurt family members (who were unlikely to read it at the time due to hospitalization). Its now hidden in the archives. If you want to read it, I'll email you the link.

[Emmie (Better Make It A Double)]

I've been thinking about your post all day, and responded with my own here:
http://allthis.typepad.com/allthis/2007/02/step_away_from_.html

[bubandpie]

I just came over here from Emmie's blog. Thanks for this post - it's the blast of sanity I needed to make it through today!

[Meira]

What a great post. I have almost-2-yr old twins and I would have a hard time doing this experiment with them. I suspect it would be different if they'd always been raised that way, or if they met a new caretaker who 'parented' that way -- but I think a complete change to the way I relate to them at this age would be a disaster. The 'monkey' example all day, every day.

However . . . with my 9-yr-old? A lot of this reminds me of the unschooling lists I'm on. The ideas resonate with me quite a bit, but I have the hardest time trying them out and sticking with it for more than 24 hours.

[Stacie]

What a great post. I came over here from Emmie, and really enjoyed your thoughts on behaviorism vs. Kohn. My twins are still under 1, so life is all about baby proofing right now, but I plan to tuck this post away and re-read it when I need a blast of sanity in the future.

[Shannon]

Sounds like it's all in the realm of "positive discipline" and "talk so kids will listen/listen so kids will talk."

I got challenged via this Kohn stuff on my blog when I explained how we go out of our way to overtly praise Nat for her beauty AS a Black girl FOR her Black features.

But I think that's a really different issue in many ways. One big one is obviously race--which is another kind of privilege like the class issues you mention here.

Frankly I'm a big fan of the positive discipline approach. I use the Kohn strategies you mention about 75% of the time. I believe that telling someone what to do without giving them the information they need to handle it themselves next time is not very helpful. But "next time" may take a few times with a toddler. So meanwhile, I do a lot of the behaviorism stuff you mention, too.

I do try to say not just "good job!" but "you worked hard on that and you did it!" or "you practiced and practiced and now you can do it!" or--in the event of failure, "you tried hard but this isn't easy!" I still say "good job!" a lot too, though, and I don't think Nat will keel over from my empty praise. Nat really loves praise. She loves to be cheered and is quite generous about cheering others in turn. When a song is over on the ipod, she claps and says "yea!" It's one way of expressing happiness and pleasure and love.

I think you're really right about it being a balance--and every technique doesn't work equally well on all children, in all situations, at all ages and all social positions.

[artemisia]

I got here via a series of links. Great post. I have always dismissed Kohn - he has some valid points, but it bothers me that he presents them as being radically different from behavioral parenting. He reduces behaviorism to mindless punishment and rewards, ignoring the listening and observing that most parents do before shaping and offering feedback.

My parents were very loosy-goosy and my sisters and I were brats who understood that other family members and friends didn't much like us and thought we were horribly behaved, but weren't sure why or how to change that until we got to be 9 or 10. That sucked. That's one thing that never gets mentioned - no matter how unconditionally your parents love you and your tantrums and tyrannical behavior, the rest of the world won't fall in line, and yeah, kids notice when other people avoid them.

One thing I always wanted for my kids was the knowledge of how to behave in a way that made people gravitate towards them and approve of them, and we used behaviorism to accomplish that. Sometimes it was just pointing out natural consequences of good behavior. (there are a lot - it's NICE to be invited places and know people are happy to see you!)